Smaller CDC study shows vaccines offer better protection
As the Delta wave of COVID-19 continues to decline from its mid-September peak in Washington state, many people are concerned about the declining efficacy of the three approved vaccines from the Food and Drug Administration. The government has authorized “at risk” patients to begin getting a booster shot of any of the Pfizer, Moderna, or Johnson and Johnson vaccines.
Yet an estimated 745,000 Washington citizens have already recovered from COVID-19 according to the Washington Department of Health (DOH). Their body has successfully fought the virus and has developed not only antibodies, but B and T cell lymphocytes to provide a defense should the individual encounter the virus again.
Last week, the DOH launched a new “vaccine verification” tool. The system provides a digital copy of state vaccine records according to the website. “You may also show your CDC provided COVID-19 card or your state immunization record,” the website states if you are required to show “proof” of vaccination status. There is no mention of natural immunity.
Does the body’s natural defense system, or the “natural immunity” one acquires after having COVID-19, offer better protection than the three FDA approved vaccines? Should someone with natural immunity be required to get a vaccination anyway?
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has weighed in, issuing a report Friday evening. Reviewing scores of research studies and its own unpublished data, the agency found that both infection-induced and vaccine-induced immunity are durable for at least six months — but that vaccines are more consistent in their protection and offer a huge boost in antibodies for people previously infected, according to one news report.
However a recent Israeli study shows that natural immunity is 13 times more effective than vaccines in protecting individuals. “SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccines had a 13-fold increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected.”
Yet the smaller CDC study offers a different conclusion, that the vaccines offer better protection. While the Israeli study had 10 times more people, they primarily used the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. In the U.S., three are approved, including the Pfizer, the Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson vaccines.
“The increased risk was significant for symptomatic disease as well,” states the Israeli report. There was waning natural immunity identified as well. However, vaccinated individuals had “a 5.96-fold increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold increased risk for symptomatic disease.” There was also a greater risk for COVID-19-related hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.
Israel is one of the most vaccinated countries in the world. This summer they experienced a “fourth wave” of the Delta variant of COVID-19 including those who were allegedly “protected” by the vaccine. Israel has over 1.3 million people who got sick from the virus and 8,130 who died.
“This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity,” said the Israeli study. “Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.”
The Israeli study period was March 1, 2020 to August 14, 2021. They used a database of Maccabi Healthcare Services (MHS), Israel’s second largest Health Maintenance Organization.
It is a 2.5-million-member, state-mandated, non-for-profit, second largest health fund in Israel, which covers 26 percent of the population and provides a representative sample of the Israeli population..
Overall, 673,676 MHS members 16 years and older were eligible for the study group of fully vaccinated SARS-CoV-2-naïve individuals; 62,883 were eligible for the study group of unvaccinated previously infected individuals and 42,099 individuals were eligible for the study group of previously infected and single-dose vaccines.
Conversely, the CDC touts a study which came to a different conclusion.
Researchers from CDC’s VISION network gathered data from 187 hospitals across nine states. These were New York, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Utah, California, Oregon, Washington, Indiana, and Colorado, according to one report.
Nice place to buy generic Cialis. Discover the convenience of cheap overnight delivery and get insights into its competitive price. The Cousteau Foundation’s wealth of resources ensures you have reliable information to make informed decisions about your health.An analysis of the data showed that 7,348 people, or a little over 3 percent of the participants, met the study criteria. Among the 6,328 people who were fully vaccinated, 324 (or 5.1 percent) had a positive COVID-19 PCR test. Among the 1,020 who were unvaccinated and who had previously had the infection, 89 (or 8.7 percent) had a positive COVID-19 PCR test.
According to the study authors, “These findings suggest that among hospitalized adults with COVID-19-like illness whose previous infection or vaccination occurred 90–179 days earlier, vaccine-induced immunity was more protective than infection-induced immunity against laboratory-confirmed COVID-19.”
Dr. William Schaffner, a professor of medicine in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine in Nashville, TN, commented on the CDC study.
He said: “For a long time, we’ve known that people [who have the infection], if they are subsequently vaccinated, will have much higher levels of antibodies than people who [have the infection] but are not vaccinated. Natural infection plus vaccination is better than natural infection alone.”
Some say the different results may be related to differences in the methods of the two studies and restrictions on the timing of vaccinations. It should be noted that the Israeli study had a pool of people 10 times larger than the number in the CDC study. They also primarily used the Pfizer mRNA vaccine.
Dr. Marty Makary, a professor at Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and editor in chief of MedPage Today, argues that mandating vaccines for “every living, walking American” is, as of now, not well-supported by science.
“Some people already have ‘natural immunity’ – that is, immunity from prior COVID infection,” he said in August. “During every month of this pandemic, I’ve had debates with other public researchers about the effectiveness and durability of natural immunity. I’ve been told that natural immunity could fall off a cliff, rendering people susceptible to infection.
“But here we are now, over a year and a half into the clinical experience of observing patients who were infected, and natural immunity is effective and going strong. And that’s because with natural immunity, the body develops antibodies to the entire surface of the virus, not just a spike protein constructed from a vaccine.
“The power of natural immunity was recently affirmed in an Israeli study, which found a 6.7 times greater level of protection among those with natural immunity vs. those with vaccinated immunity,” he said.
In September, Makary shared that there are more than 15 studies that have demonstrated the power of immunity acquired by previously having the virus. He referenced Israel “found that those who had experienced prior infections were 27 times less likely to get a second symptomatic covid infection than those who were vaccinated.”
This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.” In May, a Washington University study found that even a mild COVID infection resulted in long-lasting immunity.
Makary shared a commonly asked question. “I’ve recovered from covid, is it absolutely essential that I get vaccinated?” Many public health officials have put aside the data and responded with a synchronized “yes,” even as studies have shown that reinfections are rare and often asymptomatic or mild when they do occur, he said.
Presently, the CDC and Washington state officials do not recognize “natural immunity” when it comes to the vaccine mandates issued by the Biden Administration or the Jay Inslee administration.
Also read:
- Study: Risk for getting COVID rises with each shot
A new report from the Epoch Times warns that the more COVID shots an individual has taken, the higher the risk of getting COVID. - ‘That’s a scandal’: CDC knew COVID shots caused deaths, but lied with public denials
A new report from the Epoch Times reveals its investigation shows that the CDC knew of the links between the COVID shots and death – and lied about them. - FDA agrees to remove anti-ivermectin posts off the internet in lawsuit settlementThe Food and Drug Administration has reportedly settled a lawsuit brought by three doctors who accused the health regulator of interfering with their ability to practice medicine and prescribe Ivermectin to treat COVID.
- No good news about student learning on 4-year anniversary of COVID school closuresFour years ago this month, schools nationwide shut down as COVID-19 numbers skyrocketed and students were sent home for what was initially planned to be two weeks.
- NBA Hall-of-Famer among plaintiffs in lawsuit over WA state COVID-19 restrictionsNBA Hall-of-Famer John Stockton of Spokane is among the plaintiffs suing over alleged free-speech sanctions levied against health care providers who spoke out against state restrictions imposed during the COVID-19 pandemic.
There’s going to be a lot of U.S. government officials who won’t like this! It just doesn’t fit their narrative.
There’s a lot of right wingers are gonna like this, because it fits their narrative.
Human Biology is actual science.
Actually it fits the Science, which the Left pushes constantly!!! This Science just doesn’t fit the Lefts narrative they want to push…
To start with there’s the right and then there’s everybody else. Everybody else will listen to it and and wait until there’s more information, they don’t mindlessly believe it because it suits their agenda. For example this is also in the study:
“Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.”
and then of course you’re talking about people that wouldn’t be vaccinated, if they would’ve been the Breakthru‘s are only 3.3 thousand:
“Among individuals 60 years or older who were fully vaccinated last January, the number of confirmed breakthrough infections was 3.3 per 1,000 people during the three weeks of the study.”
The right started this game by playing Russian roulette, choosing the gun with 5 bullets in it, instead of the gun with 1 (Actually with much greater odds than that) Think about that, they made that choice and they made it based on politics.
Did all of you right wingers know they found out Trump knew he was infected with Covid when he met with the Goldstar families? Then later when he admitted he was sick he try to blame them for giving it to him? He also got Chris Christie sick?
Think about that.
Lol you’re the only one who sounds like a fanatic. Reread you sound manic. Sorry. And what on earth does trump have to do with that comment lollll the brainwash continues (no I’m not a right or left winged flying monkey)
This is predominantly right wingers on this thread, I bet there’s a higher percentage of flat Earthers here, of course I don’t sound like them.
The Trump cult leads the anti-VAX movement, dude why wouldn’t he come up?
You might not be a right or left flying monkey, we’ll have to take your word for it, but at least you recognize a flying monkey.
Just read the responses, nothing arguing with any specific points just saying it’s all garbage, like Kathy, that’s mindless cult talk.
Article clearly states that natural immunity alone is not better than also getting the vaccination, words right there in black-and-white, not one person commenting here has referred to it, acknowledged it, it doesn’t fit their talking points, that’s a cult.
And let’s not go back one step, that people chose to get the virus as opposed to the vaccine knowing the virus could kill them do permanent damage and all the other things we don’t even know about yet. They basically were told to play Russian roulette and picked the gun that was fully loaded. Since they did that the ones that survived want to be patting on the back for making an ignorant choice, based on politics. I would love to see some of them go to get their hips replaced and base it on somebody’s politics and not whether they’re an elitist, brilliant successful, hip doctor.
Funny, Trump has been vaxxed and has had the booster jab. He must think it is safe. I am a Trump supporter who thinks he is wrong on the jab. What makes him different than the left is he would not force people to take the jab against their will. Lets Go Brandon
Trump got the vaccine rolling and was one of the first to get it. He is pro vaccine. You make no sense. Step outside the bubble…
When Trump got his vaccine he hid it from everybody that was in January in March she started talking about it. Speaking of bubbles. And as usual he put out two messages.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackbrewster/2021/04/20/trump-i-dont-know-why-republicans-are-vaccine-hesitant-again-floats-pfizer-conspiracy-theory/
Just wanted to say, you are rejecting the entirety of medical knowledge post the advent of vaccines. It has ALWAYS been a fact that immunity gained through real infection is far superior to immunity gained through vaccination. You can look up paper after paper to confirm this. Your body fighting the true virus produces a much much stronger immune response than that of one mimicked through a vaccine. It’s literally only since Covid-19 appeared that all of a sudden that changed, which isn’t due to any science but purely due to politics.
You can go on your little tirades about right wingers, but all you are doing is announcing to the world that you don’t understand how science works let alone immunology specifically.
Well said… tried explaining to my uncle.. course he’s blinded by politics and political actors who are now experts in science and medicines
You need another booster for TDS . Might help you
Maybe cuz trump is effing vaccinated and is the one who started the entire project warpspeed thing in the first place? Like everyone so intent on vax mandates now were SCREAMING “I won’t take the vaccine cuz it’s trumps vaccine.” morons. like a virus cares about your politics. Trump’s so stoked that “it’s the greatest vaccine ever, his vaccine. is the best” no. It’s not the greatest. it sucks. It doesn’t do even HALF of what it was promised it would do. It doesn’t immunize, doesn’t even drastically reduce transmissibility. It might potentially be making some people have milder symptoms with the delta variant, which like awesome! great for them. But they’re more likely to catch the new variant and get reinfeccted than people with just plain old immunity. It’s not just bias, the study in Israel was SO MUCH BIGGER. Generally speaking you’re always gonna get more accurate results from study with a larger sample size. And they have a higher vaccination rate than us. Not to mention the CDC has recommended against J&J cuz it’s not effective long term.
CLEARLY it’s about politics, because so many other countries have restricted these vaccines or other covid related medications, for those under 18 because of health concerns. And the science is there, but there’s way too much political gain (on both sides. yeah, I’m looking at you, sh***y republican caucus) to care about what’s actually happening, and let people make informed decisions. No. We’re all just stupid plebes who need to have decisions made on our behalf or have state governments run us out to different states and just exacerbate the polarization. Because suddenly my taking an ineffective vaccine that has minimal to NO bearing on anyone else’s health, has apparently become the government’s business. eff that. Fear mongering political tactics at their best. *eyerolled my way through 2021 and praying I don’t have to eyeroll my way through 2022* Also can we all just agree that Fauci has to go? He openly admitted to lying on national television cuz he didn’t want the public to “steal” PPE… intentionally lying to the American people… I’m not gonna say you’re a bad person. But you have no business in the job you’re in.
Amen Alice!
Good luck on trying to get rid of fauci that will never happen why don’t you go look up Dr fauci background.. I think his track record speaks for itself and isn’t it with all these “claims” that nothing has come of fauci or him getting fired at all?with all this evidence piled against him he should definitely be fire right? so what does that tell you??!?!
Actually 1)this article states that natural immunity was better from a longer study in Israel a year and a half with hundreds of thousands of people not 7600 people 2) the US Government wants to act like there study us better with less time and people🤔 from the CDC of course. Israel has been front & center and ahead of the game since this started as you can see. Don’t be blind to what politics is being played here. Your body’s natural defense has always been better. Our CDC don’t even want the American people to know the side effects from the vaccines for 50 years, at that point we all will be dead anyways except for our grandchildren even our children will be in there late 60s early 70s! Why is that? I voted on the left but this has definitely made me second guess my vote! Stop playing with our lives and do the right thing…..
So what’s worse, taking showers with your then 14-year old daughter, swimming naked in front of FBI and DOJ police women, sniffing girl’s hair, accepting bribes from Russia and China in order to support Hunter’s massive drug habit? Like Fauci and his bankers Soros and Gates, the cockeyed and twisted Hunter is going down.
It’s nice to be a Brandon!
Forget right or left I don’t care about the political stuff. I want to know the truth. This article merely points out what would seems to be the intuitive truth. That our bodies are much more effective at doing what our bodies do that a man made vaccine. The vaccines are genius and it is amazing that we have them. We should be very grateful for them, but when ai read that a vaccine works better than my bodies natural response to a virus that just does not make sense to me. Then I read an article like this that says you common sense is right. I am not arguing every case. No doubt there are many variables, but the CDC and support institutions speak monolithically to this issue that vaccines are superior to natural immunity.
I agree with every word here!! Thx!!
“That our bodies are much more effective at doing what our bodies do that a man made vaccine. The vaccines are genius and it is amazing that we have them. We should be very grateful for them, but when ai read that a vaccine works better than my bodies natural response to a virus that just does not make sense to me.”
You contradict yourself, you’re saying our bodies are more efficient than man-made vaccines. So what is amazing, your word, about having something that doesn’t work as well as all natural immune system?
That begs to ask…
Why did we mandate polio vaccines and why did that eliminate polio from the population after doing so? You clearly stated our immune system is better, why didn’t it stop polio without the “less efficient” vaccine. This completely contradicts your comment, your claim makes no sense.
Covid kills mostly elderly people and people that are weaker (it also kills healthy people), is that the reason? Polio was killing and paralyzing children, is that what makes people care about the truth? That’s what you started with, caring about the truth, correct? And then go on about a stronger immune system, thats better than a vaccine, flying in the face of logic in history.
What I’m hearing is an ideology ideology don’t care about the truth.
It also took a field of great minds of their time twenty three years to find a effective polio vaccine. All previous where failed attempts. But I guess are science is so much smarter now, guess just are bodies got dumber.
Evolution means the virus is dead right? Funny people still get polio. Also try a little more research then google, your probably a wiki reposter!! Ideology, in your case it is idiocy.
If I understand you correctly until they succeeded with a polio vaccine everything before that was not a success… do I understand your think’s correctly?
you’re think’n that since 1955 our medical technology hasn’t improved all that much?
Evolution explains the diversity of life. I have a strong feeling that you’re think’n on evolution didn’t come from read’s books.
have a nice 2022 William, I sure will. Kelly Ernby wont
Mike.. you need to unplug the tv and go outside for a while. News outlets are companies. Companies have to make money or they can’t exist anymore. The way news outlets make money is to steal as much of your attention as possible so that they can sell ads. And the way they steal as much of your attention as possible is to get you exactly as riled up as you seem right now.. ^These are facts.
Back2, you’re stating that your opinions are a facts, that pretty much sums it up.
I don’t need to unplug my TV, it has an off switch, but it’s only turned on an hour or two a day, that’s usually to watch the local news are the newest episode of Star Trek Discovery.
Most of my information comes from print, like the comment line we’re in right now. Maybe you didn’t notice there’s an article at the top of this? The beauty about print, I can go outside and read a paper and I quite often do.
Yes I’m perfectly aware that the main stream media is the natural media in a free country with a free market, you must “think” when you watch it, because their goal is to make money. I’m also aware that a lot of people do not like what a free nation produces, all of those people that don’t think like you, being allowed to be who they are and not what you want them to be, freedom is very messy and so inconvenient to some people. For a lot of people having one new source tell them what to think is really all they want. I’m not one of those people.
But thanks for your opinion!
I think Mike works for pfizer. They don’t even say this vaccine will stop you from getting the virus now. Polio was a very different virus. It was no where near as contagious And if you got it it was basically a death sentence. If you got the polio vaccine you do not get polio. Kind of how vaccines are supposed to work. The survival rate of covid is like 99%. It is like comparing apples and oranges.
Idiot
I’m neither a Republican or a Democrat but I do know that while yes, Trump downplayed the virus to a degree that he shouldn’t have, it was not he who has led us to the insanity we now see that surrounds this virus. That piece of cake goes to our health officials who started this pandemic by telling everyone not to purchase masks, that they did nothing and that wearing one was completely unnecessary. When Fauci and other top Health Officials were asked later, once they were mandating masks, why they had first said we don’t need them, they said that they didn’t want people buying up all the masks, that they in fact did know that they worked but that there weren’t enough to meet demand of the public while also meeting the needs of the Health system. This right here was the seed of distrust that has now bloomed into this massive frenzy we are currently living in. Our top Health officials admitted that they lied to the American people so that they could achieve a particular result, and that’s just not the way to start a global health crisis. The people you need to be able to trust with your life all of a sudden couldn’t be trusted and from there the politicians on both sides knew that had a new toy and ran with it. Trump is an idiot, we knew we couldn’t trust that guy, but we all needed to believe in our health officials and they lied to us on day one about something that apparently, see there’s that trust thing again, that apparently helps prevent the spread of this virus. They lost their right to be trusted, so no wonder we’re where we are today.
Never heard of a Mike or Sonoma in any relation to the Trump or Trump family, nor have I heard of you in the Goldstar family. You left wingers or no thinkers, are mindless you fool. Where did you get your information idiot? Hey I hear they are coming out with a limitless vaccine, jump in line fool you need the boost!!
Fun how you put your words together William. Thanks for demonstrating you’re think’n.
You made me think about Orange County Republicans, Kelly Ernby, she was a thinker! 46 died yesterday from Covid. She ain’t no fool she wasn’t vacced. … like 95% of the people dying right now she wasn’t vacced. Hey dude she showed us didn’t she?
I feel so owned. 😉
Very owned indeed, because if you had followed any of the story and the husbands feed to the public you would have also seen she had underlying symptoms before she even contacted the virus.
Big letter head on the news reel as well, dyes of Covid complications. I believe even the CDC says if you are healthy and have no underlying conditions you can recover at home, with little to mild symptoms.
Also funny how you get your 95% fact, I believe both Israel and now even the UK are saying 80 percent of their vaccinated are hospitalized!! But who are they anyway right, all that matters to you is your world puppet.
I was never nor was I ever against the vaccine. I am healthy and have no underlying medical conditions, there for until they can accurately and honestly put out results I will be the one to stay home when I have a fever, and follow the guide lines.
I have had Covid, thank you Lord, I recovered and I am healthy and fine, still test positive for the antibodies, why do I need to take the vaccine?
Of course I’m aware she had underlying conditions, does it make her less stupid for not being vaccinated or more stupid?
What matters to me is the truth not my ideology. Where are your links?
https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf
Where do you get this from? CNN??? Lol – fake news. Nothing to talk about if you can’t somehow drag Trump into it. Prepare yourself sir – he’s going to be president again and the patriots of this country will be drinking your liberal tears.
I get most of my info from print, like the article above.
Patriots don’t pick their leader based on someone’s tears, fools do.
Patriots don’t support the overthrow of our government, traitors do.
That was easy, proved you wrong, Bruce, on every count.
The most recent study from Tel Aviv (you do know Israel is the most vaccinated country in the world right?) concluded that those who already had covid and enjoy natural immunity WILL NOT benefit in any way from having one dose of the Vax. There is statistically no difference for those who add a single jab to natural immunity.
So that claim is BS too.
No, your claim is made up. People who have had Covid, studies show you don’t need a SECOND shot.
Although, if they’ve already had Covid the long-term damage that it can course, is already done.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01609-4
Did you know that Fauci was warned about the dangers of the Chinese lab Wuhan experiments well in advance and he told a different story on TV to the public and continued the funding in spite of the warnings from scientists….800,000 Americans died–manslaughter is illegal in the USA. AF is going down!
I know that Trump lied over 30,000 times and his followers have no use for the truth. And since Trump is responsible for killing 400,000 more Americans then needed to die, compared to other nations at our level, his base will say anything to distract from that. Fauci is very well educated successful man. It’s obvious that there is a culture in America that hates anybody who is better, works harder, more intelligent, that’s why there is so much hatred on the right for Fauci.
Trump lied about covid being no worse than the flu, we have tapes of him talking to Woodward admitting it. He wouldn’t let American cruise ships land, because it hurt his numbers, he said there were 15 cases and would be none by April, Again while telling Woodward the opposite on tapes. He did nothing to get testing going. He allowed flights from Wuhan in spite of the pandemic and then lied about it. He allowed flights, just not Chinese nationals to fly in. All those Chinese Americans coming in and no quarantine how ignorant can somebody be. He did nothing to prevent the spread from Europe into New York. He hid the fact that he was sick he hid the fact he got a vaccination.
400,000 Americans dead because of people that put a fool in power, because he flattered them, again because he flattered them. I think about my father and all the other people that fought in our world wars for this country and how much this disrespect everyone single one of them. Making up lies about a man who’s devoted himself to peoples health to hide the fact that they put a man in power that murdered 400,000 Americans! What was stated in the senate many years ago? “Have you know shame?”
Nah, I’m left as hell and hoped from the start that surviving infection would confer at least some immunity, starting with friends who had it before there were vaccinations. But you do have to survive it, in the meantime hoping not to give it to someone else who might die, so better to be proactive and get vaccinated while you can. Probably the best odds of surviving and thriving come from getting vaccinated, and the best immunity comes from getting vaccinated and infected (without dying and hopefully without long-term debilitation of other sorts) in either order. Nor do I see this as a political opinion.
People on the right don’t pick their doctor when replacing their hips based on politics, one reason, when the surgery is botched, people are still around to say how stupid it was to pick someone based on politics. Unfortunately the people that die from not being vaccinated, aren’t around to say how stupid it was.
For those that have long Covid and other problems that are inherent with getting it, there too embarrassed to admit that they made a really stupid choice and are gonna have to live with the damage for the rest of their lives, from not picking the vaccine.
One comment in this thread told me good luck with my blood clots for being vaccinated… This is the ignorance that abounds, the blood clot issue was with J&J and it was rare, you have a higher chance of getting a blood clot cutting your hand while gardening. Of course if you got Covid your chance of blood clots went up exponentially, killing lots of people.
This. I consider myself a left liberal and im vaxxed three times already. But I don’t believe vaccines are better than the infection in anyway. And to say vaccines are better without accounting for the survivorship is so stupid. The Israeli study is trustworthy and Israelis are science obsessed – they won’t let dogma or stupidity to cloud tamper with science.
if you got Covid before, you shouldn’t be required to take vaccine for at least six months. That’s just dumb.
What does being a “right winger” have to do with scientific studies proving that natural immunity is better than the vaccine? What you should be concerned with is that the government is knowingly lying to you and pushing a vaccine on millions of people that don’t need it. The CDC using a study that involved 200-300 people and pushing that off as scientific proof that the vaccine is better is laughable. Not to mention that study was intentionally manipulated and left out key data on people that had the infection.
Generally, it’s right wing people that don’t believe science, they tend to demonize the elite and the well educated.
When you say, natural immunity, everybody has natural immunity, (except bubble boy) if they didn’t vaccines would not work. A vaccine is teaching your natural immunity to recognize pathogens, so it’s prepared to fight it. The study also states that antibodies from having had Covid, on top of a vaccine, gives you more immunity then without the vaccine. The study you quoting states that.
Yes, you clearly don’t like the CDC, this is why I suggested right wing, they don’t like scientific organizations, they prefer to listen to politicians. Again, Donald Trump went around knowing he was infectious and they estimate he infected up to 500 people. Right wingers lie and believe it’s justified, otherwise they would be outraged by what he did, they are not.
Understanding that culture on the right, the only way to really verify somebody is not a Typhoid Marys like Trump was, is it have them show proof of vaccination, otherwise we have to take their word for it, that they had Covid. We have to deal with that, even before we decide if one un-peer reviewed study in Israel that you have cherry picked from, (it states being sick and vaccine is better protection) is accurate.
You are spouting true garbage, typical leftie!
Well, to point out the obvious, your response is typical. No substance no argument just your feelings. My statement is clearly not garbage it’s accurate, that’s why you respond the way you do. I think the problem is the people in here rarely ever leave the comfort of their bubbles, when someone comes in here, tell you the things they’ve kept from you, things that shatter the fake world you’ve been fed, all you can do is get mad and yell at them.
Nobody has yet to challenge my comments with facts and logic, just feelings.
Right wing people don’t believe science and demonize the elite? Ha ha! You watch to much CNN. I would say most elite are right wing. Look around you… Who are the lefties that you see day to day? Generally uneducated unmotivated people with low paying jobs that think it’s the government’s job to give them handouts. Intelligent successful people are more typically right leaning. I think you and most on the left confuse not trusting the government with not believing in science because that’s what the talking heads on TV tell you. You are being blatantly lied to yet you are either not smart enough or are just to used to being good little sheep to make decisions for yourself instead of looking at the evidence. Who would get a shot for something that they’re already immune to? Do you also take 6 doses of cough syrup because it will make you feel even less sick than just one dose? I bet if the CDC told you to you would.
Yes, CNN is a bogeyman on the right and you’re right on cue. But no, I don’t watch CNN unless I’m at the airport waiting for a flight. I get my news from multiple sources including stops on Fox News.
I live in Northern California, I see lots of very well educated people that produce a lot for the economy. The predominantly not Trump supporters.
The most productive areas of the country are predominantly liberal. But I understand your talking point, you got it from Trump, just make up ridiculous claims, that everybody knows is not true. It kind of goes hand-in-hand with lazy people, why do the research, right? …wild claims are easy.
The liberal areas produced 70% of our economy:
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2020/11/09/biden-voting-counties-equal-70-of-americas-economy-what-does-this-mean-for-the-nations-political-economic-divide/
I relate your philosophy back Chernobyl Russia when people high in the communist party, your typical ignorant fools that authoritarian put in places of power, people that had been shoe salesman. These people are making the decisions, telling the scientist what to do, and in doing so causing a meltdown.
Trumps power, is in flattering those that do not deserve to be flattered, those that have failed at their lives those like the shoe salesman in Russia. Very arrogant at the same rate of being ignorant. Also known as Dunning and Krueger.
did you know that CDC is not vaccinated they are exempted from it. so figure that one out. if they don’t get vaccinated then what does that tell you. this is about control and money so grow up and learn what is really happening to our world.
I am concerned with the world, why would somebod believe such nonsense, something so ridiculous. In spite of that you don’t give a source. In your world everybody believes some random person online, correct? That is not a recipe for a successful nation, except for nations that might be our enemy.
News today another right wing politician who is against vaccinations died of Covid. That’s happening 14 times higher, than compared to vaccinated. I wonder how many these people on their deathbed‘s get an epiphany.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california/articles/2022-01-04/southern-california-deputy-da-dies-of-covid-19-complications
And to correct some of the miss information you spreading…
just like polio vaccine, you needed three shots to get full affect, having additional vaccine even after being sick from Covid improves your resistance to Covid reinfection. The reason you don’t post links to your claims it’s hard work.
Of course there’s a more practical issue with companies wanting to keep their employees from getting sick, you can’t track people who had Covid very easily. most of the people that are anti-VAX, Believe that lying justifies the ends, in other words you can’t trust him. As it is, I’m sure a lot have fake vaccine cards and a lying to the employers.
But let’s step back one step, you have people that chose between getting a virus they knew could kill you or your elderly or less healthy family members, could cause long-term damage as opposed to and vaccine that had been proven to be safe and effective. Why would we take advice from people that made the choice to go with the virus? It’s like you’re playing Russian roulette you chose the gun that was fully loaded, because the other gun might have an extremely rare bullet in it.
Yes, a bunch of brainiacs.
multiple independent links and studies showing the benefit of vaccination even if you had Covid.
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-vaccines-help-covid-infected-already-pandemic
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/vaccines-long-covid
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-natural-immunity-what-you-need-to-know
MikeinSonoma, I’m neither left nor right so let’s keep that clear. This first statement sums natural immunity up for me and I have been waiting for someone in the medical field to state such an obvious and common sense FACT about how our body’s natural immune system works when it comes to fighting, destroying and then recognizing any mutations in a virus/disease. See the statements below from the article.
…..that’s because with natural immunity, the body develops antibodies to the entire surface of the virus, not just a spike protein constructed from a vaccine.
This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.”
Let’s expand on your statement and quote:
“…that’s because with natural immunity, the body develops antibodies to the entire surface of the virus, not just a spike protein constructed from a vaccine”
That is true and I’ve heard nobody say otherwise. What you’re missing, is, that happens anyway. If you get the vaccine, it teaches your immune system to recognize the more common spikes, and then when the virus enters your body, you’re system is ready to go after the main spikes, your body still learns about the other ones, but in the meantime the vaccine prevents you from dying by giving it a head start.
The article seems to be suggesting that if you get a vaccine it somehow prevents your immune system from learning the other spikes, why else would it make the statement that you posted?
The majority of people that have died from Covid there immune system was in the process of learning all the spikes, they just didn’t live long enough for it to make any difference. If they had had the vaccine, The body would’ve been more prepared to fight and there’s a good chance they would’ve survived.
Enjoy your blood clots and heart murmers.
That’s long Covid problems, I didn’t get Covid.
The point is the vaccine is no better than natural immunity. And if natural immunity is good, there is no need to risk a shot with so many bad side effects people are having.
Side effects are rare, 11 out of 1, million and if you catch it it’s not a problem. We won’t even go into all of the long term and short term affects of getting Covid.
You can ignore the fact that people that are vaccinated die way less than people that don’t, that’s your choice.
Same with the natural immunity, 80 percent of the population will have no to mild symptoms with the virus, no yet has that percentage changed from strain to strain.
now with Omni they are saying most adults are having no effects, and that is not just the vaccinated.
So, left-wing people are “elite and well educated”, while those on the right are uneducated rubes.
Your introductory premise disqualifies anything you have to say as meaningful or worthwhile.
Facts are facts, Democrats on average have more education than Republicans, you listening or not doesn’t change that fact. People that are studied in a field are the elite in that field. I guarantee you, when you need your hips replaced you’re not going to pick Bubba you’re gonna pick the elite doctor that knows hips. I bet you won’t even care what is politics is.
But under the circumstances your settlement is understandable.
The majority of surgeons will be Republicans. (Remember the old leftist talking point that the Republicans are the party of the rich?) Your various inaccuracies in this thread have not been doing the Democratic party justice.
I never said surgeons weren’t Republican I’m saying on average liberals have more education. That’s a fact.
As far as doing the Democratic Party justice, I don’t really care I’m simply telling the truth, I don’t really think the majority in here care about justice, just ideology. I do believe that some people when they hear the truth will recognize it, they just need to find out it’s out there. I watch Fox News and read Breitbart I know the majority in here never leave their bubble.
if democrats are more educated then why is there inflation and making poor decisions and fighting for the american people and our country is falling apart because all they do is talk about the vaccine and don’t do others things that are more important.
“It is generally right wing people who dont believe science”
You mean like the science that it’s a baby in the womb not a bunch of tissue , or that there is a biological difference between a girl and a boy, or the science of Covid induced natural immunity? That kind of science? Oh I get it. Only science that fits a left wing agenda…
And liberals don’t lie?
Is that your justification for lying?
get a life this is so out of control that it’s obvious a political situation to control you and everyone.
The Dude
Communists like you will never accept the truth, that’s why communism exists in the world today.
I don’t know if it’s funny or sad, it was always “Socialist” and within a week of hearing one of the Talking Heads on Fox refer to liberals as communist, it’s changed on social media. I guess Socialist wasn’t producing the emotion it used to. Counties that voted for Joe Biden produce 70% of our economy, we know who the freeloader are. We know who thinks they should live as well as those that work harder and produce more, oddly that’s a socialist and communist value, your value not mine.
But thanks for your well thought out and backed up stereotype name calling.
That makes me smile, it was always Socialist and then I heard a talking head on Fox News use the word communist, within a week y’all switch to communist. It’s that ease of manipulation that allows communist, fascist and authoritarians to come to power.
Just from this one comment, I will put my money that I am more free market, hard-working and produce more wealth than you do.
“Fits their narrative”…… or maybe the science confirms what they believe.
Don’t believe everything the CDC puts out. There are other just as reputable studies…and now being proven with time…showing natural immunity is superior to the vaccines. By all means go get your shots and do what you think is best for you. I’ll do the same. What does that have anything to do with politics?
I don’t, but I believe the CDC over YouTube, other social media or some random person in a thread like this. There are absolutely no reputable studies suggesting that vaccines don’t work. All the vaccine does is introduce your “natural immunity” to a pathogen so it is ready to attack it before it does damage to your body. It’s just like my “natural immunity” protected me from polio, but yet I didn’t have to get polio to have that protection.
We know politics is involved because your political party is good at predicting if you’re not vaccinated for Covid. “90% of Democrats had been vaccinated, compared with 68% of Independents and just 58% of Republicans”
Interesting, if you look at hip replacement, you don’t see people picking their treatment based on a politician as opposed to a doctor who specializes in hip replacement.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2021/10/01/for-covid-19-vaccinations-party-affiliation-matters-more-than-race-and-ethnicity/
the vaccine messes with your immune system
It’s also conman sense involved.
Get the vaccine and get and spread the virus. Get the vax and get double boosted and get and spread the virus.
don’t get vaxed and get and spread the virus, but then have natural immunity and your protection is far greater than vaxed people. Your viral load is far less than vaxed people.
everyone is going to get omicron, from what has been determined, why order more and more and more tests?
Why not prepare with therapeutic’s? You’ve had 2 years.
But Then, Actually taking complete control of all monoclonal anti-bodies, from states buying them, with their own state funds. Even though they prevented patients being put on a ventilator by over 85% and then banning states from getting them? Crazy huh?
Cant figure it out yet!
Hi Dr. Vladimir, I was thinking Dr. dunning and Krueger.
Vaccines use our national immunity, it shows your natural immunity to look out for the virus. It’s like showing a picture of a pervert to your child so she recognizes him before he has a chance to grab her. It’s that simple. Your daughter might still recognize a pervert without it and run, but showing her Picture increases the odds. Some kids are slow and showing them the picture won’t help but that’s a small amount.
Your list of course is nonsense. Get vaccinated, there’s a much lower chance that you will be infected much lower chance to spread the virus much lower chance that you’ll die.
But hey I think you should go with your gut feelings, and if you ever need surgery on your hips replaced make sure to find your doctor on YouTube.
The right follows science and the lefties follow the authoritarian and dictatorial politics of societal control…and like Fauci, they are losing big time…Check the polls and the evidence, Fauci will soon be arrested!!.
This takes me back to my statement, Trump lied 30,000+ times his base has no use for the truth.
Hank, thank you for making my point. You’re projecting, I know it and you know it.
How’s this for a narrative that socialists won’t like:
Involuntary manslaughter can be charged if a person acts recklessly or carelessly and a person dies as a result. Fauci was (1) warned of the potentially dangerous “gain of function” Wuhan experiments by many in the scientific community and (2) was ordered to stop the Wuhan financing. He repeatedly denied everything about this to the public and continued the unauthorized financing of the dangerous “gain of function” virus experiments. 800,000 Americans have since died…Involuntary Manslaughter.
Fauci is a registered Democrat…as is Bill Gates, George Soros, Klaus Schwab and of course Brandon and Pelosi. They are all going down!
Trump county‘s only produced 29% of our economy, we know who the socialist are, You’re the one who don’t produce much will demand to live as well as those of us to do. They’re the ones who don’t produce much, but demand to live as well as those of us to do. That is the basis of socialism and it’s gross, stop it.
Your writing skills are as incomprehensible as Brandon’s speaking skills, your babbling word salad has nothing to do with anything I posted. You are a great example of how affirmative action has totally failed our educational system. Having said that, let me suggest that you follow Brandon’s rapidly plunging poll ratings, it won’t be long before his approval rating falls below his chimpanzee-like IQ. And look at a Blue/Red dot map of the USA…90% of the dots are Red. The few Blue dots only mark the liberal Democrat run cities whose streets are covered with urine, feces and needles and where dopers push good citizens in front of trains and stores are looted and burned by a bunch of uneducated BLM mongrels. Happily, these filthy subhuman sh1tholes represent no more than 10% of America’s rapidly shrinking footprint.
I can see why Sonoma is wine country…you folks produce a massive surplus of horse and cow manure.
Fauci is gonna get tarred and feathered.
Actually this is beautiful wine country with majestic redwoods.
You know they do have treatment for Tourette’s syndrome…
Now, I’m going to go back to my beautiful life that I have earned. I will leave you with your excuses.
Reality fits most normal people’s narrative.
I’d still rather get a vaccine than risk death (mine or someone else’s) at the hands of a deadly virus, occasionally increased side effects of the former notwithstanding.
Since there are studies that show that the vaccines also lower the risk of being infected with Covid wouldn’t it still be better to get the vaccine than not even if you have a certain amount of natural immunity from being infected before because the risk of being infected would go down even further than if you aren’t vaccinated. This doesn’t change the fact that you should still get vaccinated.
Where are the citations? The only way I can rely on these articles is if there are links to the aforementioned studies, not to another news article.
Aaron — there are 7 links in the story. Did you click on each of them to read the information referenced?
What is it you want a “citation” for? We are a small news staff and try to inform the citizens of Clark County and SW Washington. We don’t have the time to create a doctoral dissertation level of references and footnotes or end notes for each article we write.
But thank you for reading the story. If there is a specific reference you would like to dig into for further detail, I am happy to try and help.
Wow. That’s a mighty convenient response. If you don’t link to the actual studies, then no one can really confirm if any of this is legit. They might not even be peer reviewed.
LOL WHATEVER
Or… you could do the bare minimum of effort and just Google ‘Israeli Covid Vaccine Study’ and get this result on the first page:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
(Oh, and in case you want someone to find it for you, you’ll also have to click the ‘Full Text’ list to, you know, read the full text).
This link has 81 papers about natural immunity:
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/research-natural-immunity-covid-brownstone-institute/?utm_source=salsa&eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=798eab5b-477f-4720-9579-1cc7fa3150d8
“This article is a preprint and has not been peer-reviewed [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.”
Note that the information cited by the CDC is unpublished, thus not peer reviewed.
Look it up!
Is your google broken?
Yet you buy into whatever Fauci says without data to back it up. Odd
I think most people simply believe Dr. Fauci over YouTube or a politicians. You know like when you’re getting your hips replace you don’t find your doctor on YouTube you don’t listen to some drop out who became a politician Who tells you to rub cat urine on you and burn sage.
The Israeli study has not been peer reviewed and the headline you’ve chosen is grossly misleading.
Deborah — the study says what it says.
Whether people want to believe it, is something else. Whether it has been peer reviewed is a legitimate point for discussion.
However the initial vaccinations were not “peer reviewed”, and the “normal” approval process for the 3 FDA-approved vaccines was far from “normal”. All of which should be discussed, and reasonable people ask questions about.
Thanks for reading the article. We truly appreciate input and comments and additional information for our readers to consider.
Mr. Ley,
With resect, links are not citations, and you could have noted the CDC report cites Gazit et al as one of multiple studies considered in the report.
Initial vaccinations were most certainly reviewed by peers, probably more carefully than most. It’s true this was not a normal review process, these are extraordinary times.
Deborah Simpson is quite correct about the headline – you got it wrong. I hope you will re-read the article more careful and verify my conclusion.
Dan
Wrong how? Neither you or Deborah indicate what you think is misleading about the headline.
Also, they approved mix and match boosters without peer review and the COVID pill without peer review. So why do people try to discredit the Israel study by saying it’s not peer reviewed.
Excellent response Mr Ley. Thank you!
The headline is typical reporting these days.
it will never be peer reviewed because they are selling vaccines not cures .
Exactly! Delay in care for normal annual physicals rendered much of the hospitalizations. Clinics Instructing Covid positive patients to isolate and take vitamins and drink lots of water and get plenty of rest and don’t bother calling back but go to the Emergency Room if having trouble breathing. I call that neglect. No early treatment, just wait until you can’t breathe comfortably 2 weeks later. Fear and isolation leading to depression and suicide. The problem has always been to STOP early treatment with KNOWN affordable medicine. I am so disappointed. (I am a Registered Nurse of 26 years)
After many days/nights of reading articles/links has landed me down many rabbit holes. HARLYN comment can not be overlooked, and I can’t agree more with them.
How is the headline misleading? Are you referring to the plural word “vaccines” in the headline? (Because the study only considered the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine, not Moderna, J&J, etc.)
Perhaps the author is referring to the two Pfizer doses for each person, or the plurality of people receiving these vaccines.
Mr. Ley, please read my recent comment. The headline is not a correct interpretation of Gazit et al.
We showed both sides of the issue in the headline and sub-headline.
The Israeli study says one thing, and the CDC says something else. What’s wrong with that?
They are in conflict and we let people know that right up front.
Respectfully, you interpreted the Israeli study. Reading carefully, Natural immunity is 13 times more protective against a second infection than vaccination is against a first infection. This is very different from the claim that “natural” immunity is 13 times better than vaccination. It’s not, because everyone with the natural immunity has already had COVID once, and most of those vaccinated should not get COVID at all.
Reading further into the original article (Gazit et al, 2021) I find a more useful finding: Vaccination plus natural immunity offer 1.5 time the protection against second infection than natural immunity alone. The benefit is on the side of vaccination.
I’m all for representing both sources, but that is not what this story presents.
Do you think those who were first infected and then got two doses of the vaccine are better protected than those who were only infected with no subsequent vaccinations or those who have never been infected and have been vaccinated?
I’m in the first category and am on the fence about getting boosted. I’m 74, in excellent health with no comorbidities. My infection, which happened May -June of 2020 didn’t require hospitalization; in fact while my cough was persistent, I had no problem breathing, just incredible fatigue, some fever, which came and went, body ache, headache and, curiously, an increase in taste, not a decrease as so many note.
First, I’m a statistician, not a doctor – see your doctor for medical advice. 🙂
That said, the Israeli study (Gazit 2021) finds that first infection + vaccine is 1.5 times better than infection alone. That’s statistically significant and important on a large scale, but not necessarily helpful to you. Let me give you some examples:
If first infection and no vaccine prevents 90% of breakthrough infections, and infection+vaccine prevents 93% then having both is about 1.5 time more effective (this is called an “Odds Ratio”, (.93 x (1-.90) / (.90 x (1-.93)) =1.47 ~= 1.5).
If first infection and no vaccine prevents 95% of breakthrough infections, and infection+vaccine prevents 96.5% then having both is about 1.5 time more effective (Odds Ratio = 1.45 ~= 1.5).
So the better resistance you have in the first place, the smaller the difference in your actual risk when you add the vaccine. The difference between 95% and 96.5% is 1.5%, or 15 people out of a thousand. That’s a big number to epidemiologists, but maybe not particularly worrisome to you.
You should consider the risks to yourself and others. If you aren’t exposed to many other people, and those people you are exposed to also are not taking many risks, then your risk is fairly low even without a vaccine (assuming reasonable precautions). If you are around a lot of people, or are around other who might be exposed, or are around other that are particularly vulnerable, then the risk of exposure to yourself or others is much higher.
In your situation, the risk to others around you might be greater than the risk to yourself. I think you want to consider than in your decision.
I was reminded that immunity decreases over time, so vaccination might be a good idea anyway. The long term goal is not just to keep individuals from getting sick, but to slow down the appearance of new virus strains like delta and omicron. Fewer people infected means less opportunity for new variants to arise, and the vaccines we already have staying effective longer. These are public health concerns, and we are the public, so it concerns us all.
Good health to you, Mr. Nola.
We ask high school students to provide citations. Even middle school students have to cite their sources.
The link that says “Israeli study” takes you directly to the medical article. It is not a secret.
I think everyone needs to remember that antibodies are good no matter how you get them. The problem is that in America the virus has been heavily politicized and we have a bunch of people acting like natural immunity is some kind of conspiracy theory and that vaccines are the only way forward.
Also there is problem of confirmation bias. Everyone wants to think that their antibodies are better than the other antibodies and they want to feel like they made the right choice.
Now I don’t know the situation in Israel. But if they haven’t heavily politicized the virus over there I would be more inclined to believe their study. not 100% but I’d give it a better shot of being true. What I do know from living in america is that most politicians are an irrational mess with some form of god like ego.
Israel Study
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
Lasting antibody protection
https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/
Washington post on natural immunity being better than vaccine.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/
Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v3
there are bunch more but you guys really need to put your own effort into research.
Agreed. Due diligence requires the author to provide links to original sources. Mr. Ley did not even read very catefully, because the headline is simply wrong. See my recent comment.
Where are the citations? Links to at least one of 15 mentioned studies. Must have links to them for me to rely on the information here..
Unless CNN gives you the information. Can you interpret the statistics in the research study? My guess is NO. Move on.
Israel Study
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
Lasting antibody protection
https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/
Washington post on natural immunity being better than vaccine.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/
Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v3
there are bunch more but you guys really need to put your own effort into research.
Hey Igor, the Israel study is not peer reviewed. Also it seemed to be rather simplistic study. I didn’t see anything on sample size or various traits within the samples. Things like preexisting conditions, race, blood type, age, or any demographics. However it does show that vaccine and having covid seems to be best.
@Don, I think the study has been fully reviewed since the original preprint. Although the total sample is large, the number of people with COVID is small, so they can’t do much analysis on other traits. Otherwise the study is OK (I do this kind of analysis).
However, you are correct; the conclusion of Gazit (2021) is that vaccine+covid offers the best protection against second infection. Of course, vaccination is best way to avoid that first infection.
Of course they are not going to back down on their narrative although many of us who are medical know what they have said and are saying is totally absurd. I have to wonder about done of these medical people going along with this narrative! But then you need to go back to square one. With the mortality rate, with the “real” covid numbers, not the inflated ones that got so many places so many more reimbursement dollars, why would you push such a vaccine??. .
You are medical? And those other medical people? Guess you medical people have no need to construct a sentence huh?
You mean the completely un-substantiated claims the accident fatalities were listed as Covid?
When you look at the increased death rate they matched the numbers there weren’t people being listed incorrectly because of funding. Everybody should put that in the same category as flat Earthers claiming all science geeks lie for the money.
A family member knows someone who died in a motorcycle accident. He was asymptomatic, but the cause of death was listed as covid!
A family member knows someone who died in a motorcycle accident. He made up a lie that the cause of death was listed as covid!
Checkmate.
What a terrible headline. Given into the almighty clickbait lord I see.
The problem is immunity doesn’t last no matter which way it’s gained. So unless you wanna risk dying from infection for your immunity, which 30% of the country seems to go for, it’s definitely best to just get the vaccine.
I feel bad for the many who’ve gotten stuck after falling thru a rabbit hole because unfortunately some will die there.
Don’t believe everything you read on the internet, use critical thinking and reasoning because there’s sick people profiting by promoting lies. Be skeptical but there’s a point where too skeptical can send you down a rabbit hole.
Sorry I don’t know where that went. Godspeed y’all.
regardless of your rabbit hole death comment it works both ways. some vaccinated will die just like some unvaccinated will. That rabbit hole is for the brave and curious truth seekers. God forbid anyone dig deep and find a shit ton of dirt. It’s not for all. I get it you don’t want to read something that may throw you off balance and fear the thought of anything that goes against your reality. Now i’m not anti vax i’m anti this vax i’ll wait for an effective vaccine .. you know like one of the tons that don’t require boosters after 6 months. Truth is, the only sick people profiting by promoting lies is the government and big pharma/globalist. Godspeed BUDDY
After all those years of medical school and this is what you come up with?
I was in line for getting the vaccine and tested positive for Covid. It was a rough two weeks and easily the sickest I have ever been. I wasn’t hospitalized, but had echos of minor symptoms for 30 days.The one thing that threw me off was once I recovered, my doctor wanted me to hold off on getting the vaccine because she was seeing elevated negative reactions to the vaccine after contracting the disease. I made a conscious decision to get the vaccine once my natural immunity waned. One year later my blood test are still testing positive for natural immunity. On my last blood test, 2 weeks ago, I asked her again and she re-confirmed the elevated negative reaction narrative. I asked her should I get the vaccine anyways? Her words were exactly “well that is what THEY are recommending”. I will continue to wait and get tested every 3 months. So your broad sweeping comments for every person, not knowing medical history, replicates the sentiment like a well trained parrot.
i also had covid in january 2021, i have not received the vaccine because i still have antibodies. it makes you wonder why the cdc does not recognize natural immunity. you think it’s about money or control?
Money
I tested my antibodies 14 months after covid and my antibody level was 1303 still strong. They told us it only lasted 3 months (cdc) . Even back then honest doctors and scientist said natural immunity would be long and durable. Something very very evil is unfolding before our eyes.
Some immunity does last forever. There are people who had 1918 influenza who still have immunity. And, a friend of mine who just got her covid booster got tested for antibodies- none. Go figure!
Some people have conditions that interfere with their body’s ability to generate an immune response. For most people in that group, a booster helps significantly, but not all. They are virtually always people that are much more at risk of ending up in the hospital and dying if they get covid, so for those people, getting vaxxed is very strongly recommended.
The vaccine is doing what it is meant to do. Wipe out 25% WBCs first shot, then 50% 2nd Vax, …. BOOSTERS x2 renders ZERO defenses left. MERCOLA.
One hundred percent of people will die. That is a fact, vaccine or not, you will die. Even healthy, marathon running, vegetable eating folks will die. When? Only the good Lord knows.
If you think the vaccine is better than natural immunity, you may want to educate yourself. Don’t read anything recent that may have political push but a study published years before. Here is one published in 2018 (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468042718300150)
There is a reason doctors and scientists consistently try to mimic what Mother Natural has already mastered. A persons natural immunity will last much longer than vaccines and the booster and the next booster and the next one.
With a better than 99% survival rate, why get the vaccine? Because you were told that it will protect you? Then do it. For those that can make their own decision, let them. If they die, they die on their own terms. I had COVID and survived. And I will not get this vaccine. Again, my choice, you do you. As an adult, if you can not make a decision on your own, continue being told what to do.
“A persons natural immunity will last much longer than vaccines and the booster and the next booster and the next one.” You don’t know that. So far all studies have shown that natural + vaccine provides the highest level of antibodies. The length of the combination is not published yet, it’s too soon to know.
LOL I just read the poll about vaccinating kids. Had a feeling this place was heavily antivax. I’m prepared for obliteration
“The problem is immunity doesn’t last” – extremely false when it comes to natural immunity and since you don’t seem to be able to click the highlighted words in the article to follow citations, I’ll do it for you so you are no longer part of the uneducated cult. You follow leftist media and never do your own research lol. I’m not going to link ALL 15 studies this guy talks about, but I’ve linked SOME of the actual research studies so you understand that if you follow the highlighted text in news and research articles and scroll to the citations, you’ll be able to find it 🙂 I could also send you stuff about the educational hindrance and masks have on kids, who develop in school by learning facial expressions, and about how masks are entirely ineffective on children in an unventilated school who also play with their masks and faces by the minute, and how only K95 masks provide any reasonable protection indoors etc,. As well as the number of people estimated to actually have contracted Covid-19 (around 130-150 million in US as of today) based statistically on who gets tested, who’s asymptomatic, and who doesn’t get tested even when symptomatic. But I’ll just let you decide if you WANT to do your own Google researches, look for science journals rather than news articles, check BiasCheck for websites etc. Washington Post, which is what I’ve linked for you here, leans left, so you don’t have to worry if it is “anti-vaxx” lol and even they are coming to terms with the lies the government and media are feeding you.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/ https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.01.21258176v3 https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/ https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4
This is all coming through as one citation even though I provided spaces, so you can either type them out or highlight and copy each website knowing that the space is where one ends and the next cite starts
It has nothing to do with anyone being antivax, I dont agree with them at all but I still respect their right to free speech.
Millions of people got covid before the vaccine even existed. It has more to do with people ignoring natural immunity like it’s somehow far inferior or doesn’t exist. In the past 5 years I’ve had an MMR, Tdap and 5 Flu shots. These have a track record of being safe and have been around forever. The covid vaccine i passed on due to having covid already and because we don’t even have 1 year of data on it yet. There’s no long term data on the covid vaccine and no data on if it will cause any kind of long term problems.
I still however encourage people to get the vaccine if they’re older, have comorbitites or if they’re immunocompromised. But it’s ultimately every individuals choice and that choice should be respected.
Vaccinated, natural immunity or unvaccinated we all need to stand together.
I’m the perfect example of natural immunity !
Where is the source please??
Please learn that highlighted text (they appear blue or green) in news articles is a direct link to their source. So when you see “an Israeli study” and it’s a different color than the other words on the page, you can click it and it opens up to that website 🙂 have a nice day and good luck!
news articles highlight words that are hyperlinks to the source it’s citing. So when you see “An Israeli study” and it appears a different color than the rest of the text, take yourself on an adventure and click it!! 🙂
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03647-4
https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/good-news-mild-covid-19-induces-lasting-antibody-protection/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/09/15/natural-immunity-vaccine-mandate/
You don’t need any study to appreciate basic principles of immunology. Vaccines were created to mimic the natural pathogen. The best a vaccine can achieve is to provoke an immune response that is very close to the immunity acquired after passing through the natural pathogen. To claim vaccine induced immunity is superior to immunity acquired from natural infection is pure stupidity. Any study that is done to prove that you should take a vaccine after passing through a natural pathogen, is deliberately misleading and fundamentally flawed.
One incredibly important reason that it’s better (vax immunity) is that it doesn’t require getting covid to get protected. Given the number of people that end up in the hospital, or die, or have long term health problems after getting and surviving covid, not to mention the difficulties that all those illnesses cause for our health care system, it’s clearly better.
I don’t think Felix is advocating contracting covid rather than getting vaxxed! The question is rather, for those of us that have already HAD covid, is it really necessary to get vaxxed also if we already have stronger immunity than someone vaxxed only?
Once again, CDC ignores the science on natural immunity, relying instead on a smaller study without providing documentation (‘unpublished data’ ). The Israeli’s have done many studies throughout the epidemic that have also been ignored or discounted by the CDC. Dr Makary, among others, has been citing studies and other documentation regarding the efficacy of natural immunity. It is acurate to say that the vaccines largely target one spike protein on the virus not the entire virus as the natural immune response does. Research the vaccine website to verify.
The Pfizer request for EUA showed a negative effectiveness of protection against COVID when administered to those previously infected with COVID. Or more simply, getting the Pfizer vaccine is negligible or worse for those who previously tested positive for COVID. See Page 26
https://www.fda.gov/media/144416/download
the fact that post-recovery acquired immunity is still being dismissed by ‘official’ institutions is beyond suspicious – it suggests that there may be something going on that we’re not being told – of course, conspiracy theories abound and it doesn’t help that the father of global max-vax champion William Gates III is connected to confirmed eugenicists, e.g.,
tried posting the example link, but didn’t work, so here it is
http://dean-w-arnold.com/articles-blogs/2020/4/23/bill-gates-eugenics-vaccines-and-planned-parenthood
tried posting the example link, but didn’t work, so here it is
http://dean-w-arnold.com/articles-blogs/2020/4/23/bill-gates-eugenics-vaccines-and-planned-parenthood
The CDC study is a joke. The population that they looked at was people hospitalized with “Covid-like” symptoms. So what if a slightly higher percent of the unvacinnated who previously had Covid actually had Covid than the percentage of vaccinated who actually had Covid. They re grasping at straws to justify their decisions.
As a scholar, the issue with peer-reviewed articles is that they are also widely controlled by the narrative of the supporting institutions. If there’s a push towards the vaccine, then peer-reviewed material is more likely to support narratives and thus material that coincides with that political agenda. Institutions, are highly politicized, controlled and under considerable scrutiny to publish material that does not conflict with the sponsors. People are in precarious situations right now and those speaking out against vaccine mandates are at greater risk if their research and studies are under the watchful eye of an institution. This is an unfortunate situation that we’re facing right now, where some research is being shut down because big Pharma, the CDC and government institutions are in bed with each other. We seemed to have forgotten how powerful big pharmaceutical companies are, we seem to disregard that with the donation of vaccines, developing countries are most likely rolling into debt and facing structural adjustment efforts at these larger mandates across the board. This isn’t the time for people to fight against each other, if you are vaccinated, I respect your decision, and equally so, for people who chose to exercise the right to decide for their own bodies. No one should be forced, no one should be facing homelessness, insecurity because we are being forced to take something that is still quite experimental. Remember when you ask for peer-reviewed material, be mindful of the institutions that control the flow of information and data available for the public. They also have a vested interest in the experiment that they’re supporting. If something is free, it means we are the product. The Vaccine is def. being forced on us for free, we are the product, not the clients.
I tested positive for covid June 2020. Have not gotten vaccinated. My daughter’s got covid September 2021. I retested myself just to make sure I wasn’t positive. I did not get covid. My natural immunity is still good after a year and 3 months.
“Yet an estimated 745,000 Washington citizens have already recovered from COVID-19 according to the Washington Department of Health (DOH). Their body has successfully fought the virus and has developed not only antibodies, but B and T cell lymphocytes to provide a defense should the individual encounter the virus again.”
The number of cases is now 758,000. The number of deaths in 9,000.
The reality is that while of the cases John points out, 745,000 have not (yet) died from this and equate it to “recovery” is absurd.
Thousands suffer ill-effects from this that can last months. “Living” and “recovering” are two distinctly different things.
As I write this, I have two close relatives who were diagnosed with covid this past August. Last week, they were diagnosed with it again. One of them is not doing well. The other is “surviving.”
But to suggest that because they have a pulse, they’ve “recovered” is factually incorrect.
To suggest that “natural immunity,” presuming you can survive to achieve it, is any kind of cure-all and that some how, it will magically keep people from getting it again, is equally incorrect.
I’m fully vaxxed, to include booster. But if, as it’s been suggested, that the “pandemic is over,” then the time has come to shut down every program, every hospital wing, ever increase in funding and to do away in each hospital with all of the medications and equipment needed to address these issues.
Does anyone know of any medical facility that’s doing that? No? I wonder why.
I fully understand that vaccination is no absolute shield to covid. I get that I’ll likely need boosters for the rest of my life as well.
You know, like flu virus vaccines for the last few decades? But no one forced me to do a damned thing. Get vaxxed, don’t get vaxxed. Your call. Everyone here is free to think/believe what they want.
But when I see a headline like this: Boston MedFlight Forced To Take Patients Out Of State Due To Hospital Bed Shortage
I have my doubts as to anything being “over.”.
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/11/18/boston-medflight-out-of-state-hospitals/
So 6000 fully vaccinated persons hospiralized with covid like illness. Vs 1000 unvaxinated persons hospitalized. 324 fully vaccinated positive for coronavirus vs 89 unvaxinated. And the CDC wants us to believe vaccination offers 5x the protection?
They clearly have the numbers upside down.
The israeli study was looking at infection rates for the Delta variant (June through Aug 15). The CDC Kentucky study looked at May 1 through June 30 to specifically avoid including data for the Delta variant (the only important variant). When the CDC did look at the Delta Variant in their Barnstable Mass paper, they found that 75 percent of cases were among fully vaccinated exactly the same as the Israeli study.
The CDC has been lying about vaccine effectivness since mid August.
The CDCs MMWR paper is also not peer reviewed (clearly, since it is a complete fabrication).
I believe it is true.🙏🇮🇩
The people who made the vaccine and profit from its distribution say it’s more effective? I’m shocked!
Dear Editor,
The headline of this article is very deceptive. Natural immunity is 13 times more protective against a second infection than vaccination is against a first infection.
This is not even an interesting question – By definition people with natural immunity have 100% chance of already having a first infection. Comparing first infection to second infection is not useful.
Reading further into the original article (Gazit et al, 2021) I find a more useful finding: Vaccination plus natural immunity offer 1.5 time the protection against second infection than natural immunity alone. The benefit is on the side of vaccination.
Searching the Internet I find multiple instances of people quoting this article appropriately as an argument against vaccines. I urge you to retract or revise this article and change the headline before more harm can be done.
Regards,
Dan Eastwood
Biostatistician
Medical College of Wisconsin
It’s not deceptive and it IS interesting. This makes the already infected wonder why we are forced to get vaccinated when our natural immunity already protects us against reinfection.
Claiming that natural immunity is 13 times better than vaccination is incorrect – That is misrepresenting the findings of Gazit et al (2021}. The headline on this article, “Israeli study shows natural immunity delivers 13 times more protection than COVID vaccines”, would have one believe the incorrect claim is true. If that isn’t not deceptive, then what is?
If fact, Gazit (2021) finds that, for second COVID infections, vaccination+previous infection is 1.5 times better than previous infection alone. If a person wishes to avoid a COVID infection, either a first or second infection, it is wise to get vaccinated. THIS is the interesting point of the paper.
Note: these finding may not apply to the Omicron varian – it’s too early to know – but early data so far shows that omicron infections are less severe for vaccinated people.
Finally, if anyone reads this far, the CDC report includes results from the Gazit paper and a number of others. It is a far more complete summary of all the best available data. The executive summary is worth a read.
The only real point is: if someone has not been infected yet, they could benefit from a vaccine to prevent them from possibly dying if they get infected. But to suggest that they are only truly “safe” if everyone else is vaccinated is a ludicrous conclusion from the facts of all studies. It goes to another level when you sugggest the un-infected are only safe if “previously infected people” are also vaccinated.
The few real facts are:
if you wear a mask, you can still get infected.
if you get vaccinated, you can still get infected.
if you are in the unfortunate population with certain pre-existing conditions you can die if infected…
… And, despite the lack of reporting, you can catch it from vaccinated people wearing masks as well as from unvaccinated people not wearing masks.
i have yet to see any study report PRECISELY how you avoid catching the virus 100%… and maybe the reason for that is that it is not avoidable at 100%.
but I agree, this article does not compare apples to apples and fails to lead to the proper conclusion… and I think that conclusion is that Mandating Masks, Vaccines, etc. is like putting lipstick on a pig… it may make people feel better but it doesn’t actually make it better.
if you feel like you would have a bad result from catching COVID, then you should get vaccinated, wear a mask and gloves everywhere you go, and stay at least 6 feet away from everyone… if you don’t feel like you would have a bad time with COVID, then live and let live and have at it.
if the “mandated” precautions actually work, then everyone who follows the precautions is good, and everyone who doesn’t will catch COVID and that’s it. But we are seeing other facts play out and debating natural immunity v vaccines is mute because both groups of people still test positive… which means they probably can spread it… and most of both groups don’t die from being infected… so that’s it, drop the mandated on vaccines for people that had COVID, strongly urge people with pre existing conditions to get vaccinated to stay alive, and leave everyone else alone to decide for themselves.
AN UNVACCINATED PERSON IS NO MORE OF THREAT TO A VACCINATED PERSON of “dying from COVID” than someone else that is Vaccinated… both groups could be positive and likely infect you if they have it and spread it on you.
I don’t mean you, Mr Eastwood, in my comments… I just meant the general “you” in the spirit of the argument for those that think we actually have released studies with actionable data to avoid infection.
-sorry if I suggested otherwise in my verbiage
Thank you for publishing. It’s interesting that the article doesn’t get to the actual point until the end. Somewhat misleading..if you had only read the first half, you’d miss the main point that should be written clear for everyone. Natural immunity is stronger than the vaccine right now and should be considered a wonderful ‘way out’ of this pandemic. When the pandemic first started, NPR had a superb segment on which they discussed how viruses can weaken over time. Perhaps this is what we’re missing in all this data–how many people are walking around asymptomatic all the time? In our own lives, it seems to be everyone that’s testing positive for covid, and most are vaccinated, soo…our stats are matching up with the Israeli study also. We choose natural immunity and every American deserves that choice.
I have a question about this, not so much about the vaccine vs. natural immunity so mauch as policy, but if the question makes you wonder about the ‘facts’ presented, I would encourage you to do your research and just for an FYI, the best research studies do not always show on the first page of search results when using the google search engine. Now, for my question. In this article, the author said “However a recent Israeli study shows that natural immunity is 13 times more effective than vaccines in protecting individuals. “SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccines had a 13-fold increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected.”
Yet the smaller CDC study offers a different conclusion, that the vaccines offer better protection. While the Israeli study had 10 times more people, they primarily used the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine. In the U.S., three are approved, including the Pfizer, the Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson vaccines.” I have noticed lately that when there are studies involved in debates, the CDC or FDA or whoever is representing the side those organizations favor, they will praise the studies that are huge and super controlled and done with specific criteria involved.Yet, the studies that will bring to the table to back up their decisions are really not that controlled and certainly are not as big as some of the trials they will spend their arguement time poking holes in. The holes they poke are not so much in the findings (which is what SHOULD be the focus) but in the very minor details that if you question those details, really do not effect the results either way. It’s as thought they are saying the results can’t be right unless they agree with a policy written however long ago, but then will turn around and post their own research that ALSO has the same sort of flaw. At least it seems so to mae and, no, I did not check the Israeli study vs the smaller study by the CDC. Reading it just made me think of this observation and I wondered if anyone else had had the same thought.
**I am not a scientist. I just happen to have an insatiable curiosity and need to prove anything that might be considered fact by anyone I know. Just adding this so no one assumes I know a thing about it. I just pick up inconsistency in literature**
This conclusion is worthless to anyone wanting to avoid a first infection. Who cares about protection versus second infection when you are still trying to avoid the first?
The only useful interpretation I get out of this is about how well the current vaccines are doing against the Delta variant. People still have better protection from infection (first or second) with a vaccine than without.
Stay curious! 🙂
Was this Israeli study a double blind study?
No. It’s very difficult to blind a study on this scale, and you can’t blind people from knowing they have already had COVID.
You have to risk getting an illness that puts you in the hospital in order to be “protected”. Otherwise, the protection that’s built up from infection may be inadequate.
I had Covid and my co worker did also we were working in a remote isolated location. I had Covid at the end of December my co worker contracted it in first part of Febuary this year 2021. Protocall was to take Covid test before we fly and we take another when we land at last leg of flight. Then we are subject to testing every 3rd day from last test. The onsite test finds one fellow with Covid they load him up and take him to land. Yes we were in the same room with him setting next to him. So we are both put into isolation floor shared same bathroom we ate in our rooms were we isolated for 14 days but still went and performed duties(as which we are not in contact with anyone). At the 11th day and testing another fellow on the confinement floor was confirmed positive.In perspective it leaves my coworker and myself for 4 more days before departure.
The fellow tested positive was transported off. We were in contact with this guy so logic would say we should have been held untill incubation period was over then re checked then released. So immunity must have been still there for both of us. i did three separate trips into La. when Delta variant was dropping them out like flies. Gues i’m lucky ????
how do we get the REAL science to stand against our ridiculous mandates?
The question of whether COVID is better than vaccine is meaningless (we aren’t going to Walgreens and choosing one or the other). Either you’ve had the infection or haven’t.
If you have not had COVID, getting the vaccine is clearly going to provide protection. The only meaningful question here is whether people who have been infected should be mandated to get the vaccine.
Thank you, this is the most reasonable post in the whole comments section and I think mostly everyone agrees with this despite the fights. Everyone is fighting over nothing.
I came here because they’re on the edge of making the booster mandatory here in Australia, but I just got exposed to covid with no symptoms whatsoever so I don’t think I should be mandated to get it as I’m protected by natural immunity which is better than vaccine immunity. This is despite getting the first two jabs because obviously they would protect me in the first place (and might be why I got no symptoms).
I am reading these reports to try to make an intelligent decision for an organization I belong to, not because I want to be on the left or right of this issue. Stop making this political, it is a medical problem!!! If the government and social media wouldn’t have gotten in the middle of this it wouldn’t have divided this country and could have save lives. If people would just read the facts instead of reading what they want into them we would know both sides of the issues and then be able to make intelligent decisions without being called right wingers or leftists. I’m afraid once you question anything you are labeled, it’s a sad commentary on inquiry.
Why isn’t this article being seen by White House staff, President, Fauci, and rest. God given Natural immunity is best. Why no cards for natural immunity? Come on wake up people.
Too many Americans have been hospitalized and even died trying the natural immunity thing.
ITs about control from here on in along with climate change. Trump walked out of the hospital in 4 days and if your sick you can insist on the I v treatments he had in the E R but dont expect them to offer it you have to insist. Why you might ask” Corporate Greed and a far left government to mandate.
Incredibly weak study, multiple high level medical reviews have pointed out the flaws and statistical weaknesses. This study is the equivalent of the Cheshire cat for anti-vaxers. Fine, let them wave it around.
CDC is a vaccine company everyone knows. Thats why they would always promote their prodcuts for $$$$. Common sense))
Can we get apolitical with this virus for at least a second?? Vaccinating children makes about 0% sense… or about the amount of healthy children that die from the virus. Maybe look into adverse reactions & then judge the virus & vaccine. Far more dangerious for children to get the vax than the virus. Don’t damage the young to save the old, that is just pure illogical nonsense.
Irregardless, if vaccines work, get it and you are protected from me not getting it. I am free to decide if I want to rely on my natural immunity since I had COVID already. I don’t need anyone telling me I need more protection than my natural protection provides me… especially since I was sick for a couple days only and apparently am not likely to die from it if I get it again.
Also, of everyone I know that is currently testing positive… they all have been vaccinated previously… so guess what doesn’t stop you from getting it… and since they are living through it… then again, I ask why do you feel I need to get vaccinated?
if a vaccine protects us from dying from COVID, then what the heck does it matter to you if I don’t get jabbed as long as you are vaccinated?
The only real point is: if someone has not been infected yet, they could benefit from a vaccine to prevent them from possibly dying if they get infected. But to suggest that they are only truly “safe” if everyone else is vaccinated is a ludicrous conclusion from the facts of all studies. It goes to another level when you sugggest the un-infected are only safe if “previously infected people” are also vaccinated.
The few real facts are:
if you wear a mask, you can still get infected.
if you get vaccinated, you can still get infected.
if you are in the unfortunate population with certain pre-existing conditions you can die if infected…
… And, despite the lack of reporting, you can catch it from vaccinated people wearing masks as well as from unvaccinated people not wearing masks.
i have yet to see any study report PRECISELY how you avoid catching the virus 100%… and maybe the reason for that is that it is not avoidable at 100%.
but I agree, this article does not compare apples to apples and fails to lead to the proper conclusion… and I think that conclusion is that Mandating Masks, Vaccines, etc. is like putting lipstick on a pig… it may make people feel better but it doesn’t actually make it better.
if you feel like you would have a bad result from catching COVID, then you should get vaccinated, wear a mask and gloves everywhere you go, and stay at least 6 feet away from everyone… if you don’t feel like you would have a bad time with COVID, then live and let live and have at it.
if the “mandated” precautions actually work, then everyone who follows the precautions is good, and everyone who doesn’t will catch COVID and that’s it. But we are seeing other facts play out and debating natural immunity v vaccines is mute because both groups of people still test positive… which means they probably can spread it… and most of both groups don’t die from being infected… so that’s it, drop the mandated on vaccines for people that had COVID, strongly urge people with pre existing conditions to get vaccinated to stay alive, and leave everyone else alone to decide for themselves.
AN UNVACCINATED PERSON IS NO MORE OF THREAT TO A VACCINATED PERSON of “dying from COVID” than someone else that is Vaccinated… both groups could be positive and likely infect you if they have it and spread it on you.
We have all laughed at the definition of insanity as doing the same thing again and again expecting different results. A fully vaccinated cruise ship just had a 17 case outbreak, yet they continue to push more shots only. Until our government recognizes the strength of natural immunity and implements encouraged immediate treatments, nothing will change.
If you follow the link to the study, it isn’t peer reviewed and states that it shouldn’t be used to guide clinical practice. So don’t go around preaching this as fact.
I’m neither left nor right so let’s keep that clear. This first statement sums natural immunity up for me and I have been waiting for someone in the medical field to state such an obvious and common sense FACT about how our body’s natural immune system works when it comes to fighting, destroying and then recognizing any mutations in a virus/disease. See the statements below from the article.
…..that’s because with natural immunity, the body develops antibodies to the entire surface of the virus, not just a spike protein constructed from a vaccine.
This affirmed a June Cleveland Clinic study of health-care workers (who are often exposed to the virus), in which none who had previously tested positive for the coronavirus got reinfected. The study authors concluded that “individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from covid-19 vaccination.”
I’m still not getting the answers I seek. Talking about antibody levels in the blood is not good information because it’s normal for antibody counts to decrease over time. If you get covid, yes, you produce antibodies and you (most people anyway) get better. But at a later time, should the virus re-enter the body, it’s the T-cells that contain memory of the virus and trigger the b-cells to begin making the antibodies to fight the virus again. That’s what they need to be counting to determine immunity. Just saying that antibody count goes down is a given.
Yall realise the Israeli study literally says the exact opposite of your claim in the same sentence you quote it in…
“Natural infection plus vaccination is better than natural infection alone.”
Get vaccinated.
If Clark County were getting lots of Naturally Immune reinfections, then Clark County Public Health ought to be reporting cases. CCPH doesn’t list a single case on their COVID-19 data page, That tells me that Natural Immunity works amazingly well and preventing reinfection!
Another confirmation of the unelected, unaccountable, bloated burocraccy elites being a major stumbling block of American governance and progress. Elected officials must be held accountable. Limited governmnet is better. As President Regan said, “[We] are not free unless government is limited.” “Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them.”
The fact that the CDC, Fauci, and the NIH won’t even speak about natural immunity is a testament to this pandemic being truly a scam-demic. The latest study just days old from Tel Aviv proves that natural immunity confers 13 times the protection derived from the vaccine and boosters. Yes covid is real, but this covid crazy panic was designed to create fear and make the sheeple do as they are told.
I’ll NEVER take that jab!
I am so angry with my government that natural immunity is not taken into account, that would save thousands of jobs. i cannot believe they only listen to one side and not come up with real evidence of vaccine is better than natural immunity. they only fish around small data to try a get their outcome. natural immunity has protected the world from illness since mankind began. how are the governments going to explain to the thousands of people who lost their job when they realise how wrong they were. i just wish and pray for someone to stand up and take these decision makers to task. for the thousands of people who given so much on the front line and now will be sacked. this is shameful and something needs to be done i hope every leader around the world loses their jobs on their next elections. 20 years front line and i will be unemployed. i am being forced to take something i do not need as i am fully protected.
Lol, love it when they quote studies that aren’t peer reviewed 😂
Yea trust some Isreal study over the CDC… that’s when you know your edumacated and insane!!! Freedumb!!
U.S. government agencies and and leftist mouthpieces keep saying “follow the science”! It’s sad that they themselves refuse to “follow the science”, especially when it doesn’t fit their narrative. It is interesting that U.S. agencies, and agency sponsored “studies” are in complete conflict with their non-U.S. cohorts, while the U.S. junk science only reinforces the narrative of corrupt leftist politicians and Democrat party members. U.S. sponsored laboratories and “scientists” have a financial need to produce that which benefits their benefactors.
Involuntary manslaughter can be charged if a person acts recklessly or carelessly and a person dies as a result. Fauci was (1) warned of the potentially dangerous “gain of function” Wuhan experiments by many in the scientific community and (2) was ordered to stop the Wuhan financing. He repeatedly denied everything about this to the public and continued the unauthorized financing of the dangerous “gain of function” virus experiments. 800,000 Americans have since died…Involuntary Manslaughter.
Fauci is a registered Democrat…as is Bill Gates, George Soros and Klaus Schwab.
Where is the reference to the original study report? I want to read the entire report.
This summary of the report does not state the death rate, rate of hospitalisation and serious illness of vaccinated people having “natural immunity” versus unvaccinated people with “natural immunity”. Death and serious illness are the main issues to be avoided with Covid19.
The overall tenor of any report must be evaluated, and not cherry-picking sensational excerpts.
Why was this article burried 30 links down on my Google search?
The problem is that there are been many such studies, most of which show the vaccine to be superior. It’s not surprising that one or a few studies disagree; scientists are human too.
Do you remember a few years back when Israel claimed to have cured cancer? I question their reports.
Here is a more recent one to consider:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-06629-2
the CDC is full of crap
Well this article didn’t age well, turns out the Israeli study was flawed and misinterpreted.
The study actually determined just the opposite of what this article is claiming.
It turns out vaccine induced immunity is actually substantially stronger and more consistent than natural immunity.
The reason countries like Israel see more hospitalizations from vaccinated individuals than unvaccinated individuals is because the majority of the country is vaccinated.
The same thing is happening in the United Kingdom with older individuals.
Between January 31st and February 27th there were 958 individuals age 70 and older who died from COVID-19
During that same time. Only 365 unvaxed individuals over the age of 70 died.
Anti-vaxxers are posting this as some sort of evidence that the vaccine is not effective because more vaccinated people are dying.
This is extremely unethical and an intentional misinterpretation of facts.
In the United Kingdom The vaccination rate for those 70 and older is nearly 98%
That means The vaccinated deaths came from a pool of 5.3 million 70+ representing a per capita rate of just 0.018%
The unvaccinated deaths came from a pool of just 108,000 representing a per capita rate of 0.33%
In case your mouth is bad that’s a 1733% increase in mortality rate for the unvaccinated 70 and over
Even though the number of vaccinated in the hospital exceeded the number of unvaccinated the per capita rates was nearly 1,733% higher for unvaccinated individuals.
That’s why antivaxers like to use raw numbers rather than per capita rates.
They’ll show you a meme that shows some country just had 958 vaccinated people die from covid meanwhile only 365 unvaccinated people died.
What they don’t want you to know is the per capita rate and that those 958 vaccinated people come from a substantially larger pool than the unvaccinated.
So bear in mind when someone tries to convince you that the vaccine isn’t effective by posting wrong numbers insist that they show you the per capita rate of mortality and infection rates rather than just the raw numbers as raw numbers are meaningless without a metric to gauge them with.